• Log In
Catholicism and Adventism
Discussing Seventh-day Adventism from a Catholic and biblical perspective, and then just some other stuff too
  • Home
  • Intro
    • Mary, the Theotokos
    • Introductory articles
    • About me
    • My views on Adventism
    • Blog rules and ToS
    • Contact
    • Books / videos I recommend
    • Various links
    • Eastern Christianity links
  • The Sabbath
    • The Sabbath – Articles
    • The Old Testament Sabbath and Christians
    • The Sabbath and the First Day in the New Testament
  • Adventist teachings
    • General
    • Prophecy
    • Anti-Catholic propaganda
    • Falsehoods about the Catholic Church
    • Christian holy days
    • The state of the dead
    • Diet and alcohol
    • Adventists and Abortion
    • Baptism
    • Jesus – God or not?
    • The Bible and the Clear Word
    • Ellen White, prophetess
    • Samuele Bacchiocchi
    • Converts from Adventism / Sabbatarianism
  • Catholicism
    • Catholic teaching and defence
    • The Early Church
    • Eastern Christianity
    • The Mass – video collection
    • What Catholics Believe
  • Debates
  • Prophecy
  • Misc topics
    • Books / videos I recommend
    • Herbert Armstrong
    • Mormonism
    • Jehovah’s Witnesses
    • Various links
  • Abortion
  • What Catholics Believe
  • Pope Francis, the Latin Mass … updated
  • Ellen White’s inspiration …
  • Pope Benedict’s final blessing
  • 3 horns and Ostrogoths
  • Pope Sylvester I – who changed the Sabbath?
  • Adventists abusing Socrates
  • Bacchiocchi, 666, VFD
  • Why a bishop may not drink grape juice
  • Is Easter pagan?
  • The Mass – videos
  • Line upon line
  • 1 Cor 16:2 …
  • Statues and idols …
  • Whose truth is the real truth, and how can we know?
  • Catholic discussions on Facebook

About

  • Mary, the Θεοτόκος
  • Blog rules and ToS
  • About me
  • Contact
  • Entries RSS
  • Comments RSS

Free ebook

Free ebook

Click the image

We’re on Facebook!

Catholic discussion of Adventism

Catholic discussion of Adventism

@CatholicAndSDA@CatholicAndSDA

Saint Blogs Parish

New Evangelists Monthly

Scoop.it!

Catholicism and Adventism on Scoop.it!

Subscribe

Subscribe to posts via email [via Wordpress]

Recent posts

  • The 10 commandments in full
  • Sabbath rest or sabbath worship? – Part 2
  • Sabbath rest or sabbath worship?
  • Is Donald Trump the little horn of Daniel 7?
  • Prerequisites for a National Sunday law
  • Should Catholics be pro or anti vaccination?
  • Are the annual holy days of Israel fulfilled by Christ?
  • Sabbath versus circumcision – which is greater?
  • The Feriae of Pope Sylvester I
  • Dishonesty in Seventh-day Adventism, Part 2 – Catholicism

Recent comments

  • Teresa Beem on Sabbath rest or sabbath worship?
  • Mrs. Cote on Are Adventists really Christian? Are they authentic Trinitarians?
  • Larry Mihm on Is Donald Trump the little horn of Daniel 7?
  • Stephen Korsman on Are Adventists really Christian? Are they authentic Trinitarians?
  • Lynne Viverito on Are Adventists really Christian? Are they authentic Trinitarians?
  • Stephen Korsman on Should Catholics be pro or anti vaccination?
  • Stephen Korsman on The Protestant Reformers and the Jewish sabbath
  • Eu Sunt on The Protestant Reformers and the Jewish sabbath
  • Stephen Korsman on Thus saith Ellen, part 4 – The 10 commandments
  • Don Watson on Thus saith Ellen, part 4 – The 10 commandments

Archives

  • January 2019
  • December 2018
  • November 2018
  • October 2018
  • September 2018
  • August 2018
  • July 2018
  • June 2018
  • May 2018
  • April 2018
  • March 2018
  • February 2018
  • January 2018
  • December 2017
  • November 2017
  • October 2017
  • September 2017
  • August 2017
  • June 2017
  • April 2017
  • March 2017
  • January 2017
  • December 2016
  • November 2016
  • October 2016
  • September 2016
  • August 2016
  • July 2016
  • June 2016
  • May 2016
  • April 2016
  • March 2016
  • December 2015
  • November 2015
  • October 2015
  • September 2015
  • August 2015
  • July 2015
  • June 2015
  • May 2015
  • April 2015
  • November 2014
  • September 2014
  • August 2014
  • June 2014
  • May 2014
  • March 2014
  • February 2014
  • December 2013
  • November 2013
  • October 2013
  • September 2013
  • August 2013
  • July 2013
  • June 2013
  • May 2013
  • April 2013
  • March 2013
  • February 2013
  • January 2013
  • September 2009
  • August 2009
  • February 2009
  • January 2009
  • December 2008
  • October 2008
  • September 2008
  • July 2008
  • June 2008
  • April 2008
  • July 2007
  • May 2007
  • April 2007
  • March 2007
  • February 2007
  • January 2007
  • December 2006
  • November 2006
  • October 2006
  • September 2006
  • August 2006
  • July 2006
  • June 2006
  • May 2006
  • April 2006
  • March 2006
  • February 2006
  • January 2006
  • December 2005
  • November 2005
  • October 2005
  • August 2005
  • July 2005
  • June 2005
  • December 2004
  • April 2004
  • February 2004
  • December 2003
  • November 2003
  • October 2003
  • February 2003
  • January 2003
  • November 2001
  • September 2001
  • August 2001
  • December 1999
  • April 1999
  • September 1998
  • July 1998
  • December 1997

Categories

  • Adventism
  • Blog admin
  • Catholic
  • Dishonesty
  • Family
  • Herbert Armstrong
  • Liturgy
  • Medical
  • Other religions
  • Prophecy
  • Sabbath
  • Thus saith Ellen
  • Uncategorized
  • Virology
  • What Catholics Believe

Tags

10 Commandments Abortion Adventism Adventist Anti-Catholic Apostles Bible Catholic Catholic Church Christian worship Church Fathers Constantine Conversion Daniel Dies Domini Diet Easter Ellen White Ellen White Eucharist First Day Gregorian University Holy Day Honest quoting Jesus Law Mary Mass New Covenant Novena Old Covenant Orthodox Papacy Passover Pope Pope Benedict XVI Pope Francis Prophecy Resurrection Sabbath Samuele Bacchiocchi Soul sleep Statues Sunday Trinity

Books I recommend

  • Books / videos

Blogs I read

  • Shameless Popery
  • Fr. Z’s Blog – What Does The Prayer Really Say?
  • Biblical Evidence for Catholicism
  • The Joys of Being Catholic
  • It’s Okay NOT to be a Seventh-day Adventist
  • The Eye of the Tiber
  • Bread from Heaven
  • Creative Minority Report
  • New Liturgical Movement
  • Etheldredasplace

Credits and info

  • Copyright
  • Credits
  • About me
  • Contact
  • Privacy Policy
Society blog
Fight Spam! Click Here!
« Bible Quiz: Are unclean meats still unclean for Christians?
Laughable arguments – baptism, immersion, and Adventists »

Baptism by immersion only?

April 24, 2015
By Stephen Korsman
Fb-Button
Print Friendly, PDF & Email
Early Christian painting of a Baptism - Saint Calixte Catacomb - 3rd century

Early Christian painting of a Baptism – Saint Calixte Catacomb – 3rd century

Adventists baptise only by full immersion (submersion), and they don’t consider other forms of baptism to be real baptisms. They also don’t baptise infants, but that’s another story for another day.

As with the Sabbath, Adventism’s doctrine is based on selected texts and not the entire biblical picture. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, recognises all three modes of baptism depicted in the Bible. We baptise by immersion (single or triple) and by pouring, and while we don’t baptise by sprinkling, we recognise its validity.

In a typical Adventist discussion, like the one I had this week on Facebook, you’ll be presented with only those passages in the Bible where people were baptised in rivers, and only those passages that depict baptism as a symbolic burial.

The Catholic Church acknowledges these passages, but doesn’t read more into them than they actually say. And we read the rest of the Bible too, and find other texts there that indicate that immersion is not the only valid, biblical form.

Considering that there are several denominations that baptise by immersion only and don’t recognise anything else as a real baptism, it’s surprising that there is not one single passage in the Bible that shows a single case of baptism that was definitively done by full immersion. Only indirectly, through St Paul’s analogy of burial, do we get confirmation that baptism can be done by full immersion.

Texts supposedly proving full immersion baptisms

Let’s look at the common texts showing baptism in rivers:

Matt 3:16 (KJV) – And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him

Nothing in this verse says Jesus was fully immersed. He could have had water poured on his head, and then gone out of the water onto the river bank. The phrase “went up out of the water” can be performed whether one was fully immersed or only standing in the water. All we can tell from this is that Jesus was in the water – we cannot tell how deep.

John 3:23 (KJV) – And John also was baptizing in Ænon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized

Nothing in this verse says anyone was fully immersed. Just because there was water, doesn’t mean that they were fully immersed. The phrases “much water” and “fully immersed” do not mean the same thing.

Another passage that people present as proof of full immersion is Acts 8:38-39. Yet the funny thing about this is that the verse attributes the same degree of wetness to the person performing the baptism as it does to the person being baptised.

Acts 8:38-39 (KJV) – And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Here again we have two people going “down into the water” and coming “up out of the water.” If you read the text, you’ll see that the eunuch went down into the water, and came up out of the water. This Adventists interpret as being fully immersed. But if you read carefully, you’ll notice that Philip also went down into the water and came up out of the water. They both did! Does that mean Philip was also fully immersed?

Some Adventists seem to think that going down into water and coming out of it again is an absolute indication of full immersion. Not so, unless Philip dunked himself as well.

Baptism of Jesus - Orthodox icon

Baptism of Jesus – Orthodox icon

Baptism as a burial with Christ

Let’s look further at what baptism means:

Adventists quote verses like Romans 6:4 and Col 2:12 to show that baptism is likened to a burial. But they ignore the other analogies made in Scripture. Catholics believe in the burial symbolism too, but we read the whole Bible, not selected parts, and find more.

Adventists also quote 1 Cor 10:1-2 (KJV) – Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea

They forget that during this baptism, the Israelites were not immersed in water at all. The sea parted and they walked through on dry land. At most, they were sprinkled with spray being blown in the wind.

Baptism as washing

The Greek word for “baptise” is βαπτίζω (baptizo). Are there times when “baptizo” is used for washing without immersion? Yes.

Luke 11:38 (KJV) – And when the Pharisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed (baptizo) before dinner.

In that verse, “washed” is “baptizo” – and Mark’s parallel passage (Mark 7:3-4) shows that the Jews didn’t fully immerse before eating – they washed their hands.

Mark 7:3-4 – For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash (nipto) their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. And when they come from the market, except they wash (baptizo), they eat not. …

In Mark, the first “wash” is the Greek “nipto” and the second wash is “baptizo“. The Jews washed their hands before eating – they didn’t fully immerse themselves.

So there we have it – “baptizo” can be used to mean “wash“, and the Bible does use it that way.

One could argue that baptism was done by immersion of the hands.  However, that is not the way Jews did it.  This is how they do it:

“Contemporary practice is to pour water on each hand three times for most purposes using a cup, and alternating the hands between each occurrence; this ritual is now known by the Yiddish term negel vasser, meaning nail water. This Yiddish term is also used for a special cup used for such washing.”
– Wikipedia, Ritual washing in Judaism

You can find the same information here: Hand Washing (MyJewishLearning), and this video – How to Wash Hands Before Eating Bread (Jewish Pathways, on YouTube).

Baptism as sprinkling

Hebrews 9-10 show us a fascinating comparison. Like in the rest of Hebrews, the Old Covenant is compared to the New Covenant. Under the Old Covenant, there were various ritual washings that took place – washings of people and washings of things. The washing often took the form of sprinkling of either water or blood.

Hebrews 9-10 starts off by talking about the Old Covenant, and then gets specific – and speaks of washings, using the Greek noun βαπτισμός (baptismos).

Heb 9:10 (KJV) – Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings (baptismos), and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Baptism of Christ - Francesco Albani

Baptism of Christ – Francesco Albani

The author of Hebrews then goes on to describe various washings (and sacrifices). After describing what took place under the Old Covenant, he shows what happens with the New Covenant. The passage starts off with washing, shows three types of sprinklings as examples, and then ends off in the next chapter with washing by pure water and sprinkling of our hearts (Heb 10:22, shown below). What a way to describe baptism!

These washings were types of baptism. Verses 13, 19, and 21 show us the washings. All three are done by sprinkling. Do you get that? All three types of washings (baptismos) mentioned are done by sprinkling!

Heb 9:13 (KJV) – For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh

Heb 9:19 (KJV) – For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people

Heb 9:21 (KJV) – Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

There is a Greek word for sprinkling – “rhantizo” – which is used in this passage where you see the English word “sprinkling“. But the fact that “rhantizo” is used in this passage as a subset of “baptismos” is very telling.

Heb 10:22 (KJV) – Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Purifying is symbolised by baptism, which brings forgiveness of sins. Yet in the Old Testament, blood was sprinkled on the altar for the forgiveness of sins, and the ashes of the heifer were mixed with water and were called the waters of sprinkling which purified the unclean. So baptism is symbolised by sprinkling too.

When are our bodies washed with water in a religious sense? Only baptism. In baptism, water washes our bodies outwardly – so here we see that baptism is a symbol of washing clean. In baptism, our hearts are inwardly made clean – and here we see that baptism is compared to sprinkling.

You’ll probably notice that Adventism has problems differentiating properly between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant – this leads them to a very problematic view of the Sabbath as well.

Other passages of relevance:

Ezek 36:25 (KJV) – Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

What does baptism do? It makes us clean. How is it symbolised in this verse? By sprinkling.

Numbers 19:13 (KJV) – Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.

How does water make people clean in this verse? By sprinkling. What does baptism do? It makes us clean.

Baptism as pouring

Baptism - Fresco on the catacomb of Saints Marcellinus and Peter, Via Labicana, Rome, Italy

Baptism – Fresco on the catacomb of Saints Marcellinus and Peter, Via Labicana, Rome, Italy

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is compared to the Holy Spirit being poured out. And think of the tongues of fire (Acts 2:2) – they were not fully encompassed by flames, but rather touched by tongues of fire.

Mark 1:8 (KJV) – I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:17a (KJV) – And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh …
Acts 2:38 (KJV) – Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Here baptism is compared to pouring – the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. Being baptised by the Holy Spirit is the same as having the Holy Spirit poured out on you.

Acts 10:45-48 (KJV) – And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Here baptism is again compared to the gift of the Holy Spirit – the Holy Spirit is poured out, and the reference to baptism is clear. The baptism with the Holy Spirit was by pouring, so why not also with water?

Problems with sufficient water

Many of the baptism events recorded in the New Testament show situations where bodies of water large enough for full immersion would have been scarce. Inside a prison (Acts 16:33)? Hardly. 3000 people all at once (Acts 2:41)? There was not a water supply big enough to cope with that – and even if there was, the Jews would not have allowed their water supply to be contaminated by 3000 bodies being fully immersed in it. And they would also have chased the Christians out of the temple if they had tried using the Jewish ritual baths for this on such a scale.

Conclusion:

The Bible clearly has baptism shown as burial, washing, pouring, and sprinkling. That should be enough for any Bible-believer who isn’t clinging to his/her traditions. Baptists – well, they’d have to give up their name (although the original Anabaptists used pouring and sprinkling as well as immersion); Adventists are distant relatives of the Baptists, and cling to any difference they have with the Catholic Church and her teachings and practices. I’ve got another post about some of the irrational arguments they recently put forth in the discussion I had.

Adventists cling to their traditions on one extreme – full immersion. What if a finger was not immersed? Is the baptism valid? What if a hair was not immersed? Is the baptism valid? It’s silly. It’s hair splitting.

Quakers cling to their traditions on the other extreme – they don’t need water at all.

God gave us baptism with water. But he didn’t specify how much. God tells us in the Scriptures that baptism is a type of burial, a type of washing (and washing and purification includes sprinkling according the Old Testament and the book of Hebrews), and a type of pouring. God tells us that we are baptised in the Holy Spirit – and that the Holy Spirit is poured out on us. That’s a strong comparison – baptism and pouring are the same with the Holy Spirit, so why not with water?

So those who fully immerse baptise validly. Those who baptise by pouring also baptise validly. And those who baptise by sprinkling (which Catholics do not do) also baptise validly.

Are you a Bible-believing Christian? If so, you should accept what the Bible says about baptism – burial, washing, sprinkling. Are you an Adventist clinging to your church’s traditions? If so, stop rejecting what the Bible says and believe ALL of what the Bible says instead of those verses selected for you by your pastors and teachers.

Further reading:
Catholic Answers Forum – Baptism: Sprinkling or Immersion?
Catholic Answers – Baptism: Immersion only?
Apologetics for the Masses #259 – Bible Christian Society, John Martignoni
Apologetics for the Masses #260 – Bible Christian Society, John Martignoni
Laughable arguments – baptism, immersion, and Adventists

Most people voted: I agree
Your reaction to this post:
  • I agree ()
  • I disagree ()
  • I am not sure ()
  • Awesome ()
  • Interesting ()
  • Boring ()

More from my site

  • The Sabbath and the Old Covenant, part 1The Sabbath and the Old Covenant, part 1
  • The Sabbath and the Old Covenant, part 2The Sabbath and the Old Covenant, part 2
  • Col 2:14-17 – does this refer to the 7th day Sabbath?Col 2:14-17 – does this refer to the 7th day Sabbath?
  • We’re now on Facebook!We’re now on Facebook!
  • Bible Quiz: Are unclean meats still unclean for Christians?Bible Quiz: Are unclean meats still unclean for Christians?
  • What Catholics Believe – Sunday observanceWhat Catholics Believe – Sunday observance

Share this:

  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • Reddit
  • Pinterest

Like this:

Like Loading...

Tags: Adventist, Baptism, Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Bible, Burial, Catholic Church, Eunuch, Immersion, Jesus, New Covenant, Old Covenant, Philip, Pouring, Sabbath, Sprinkling, Traditions, Washing

« Bible Quiz: Are unclean meats still unclean for Christians?
Laughable arguments – baptism, immersion, and Adventists »
Flag Counter

Copyright © 2019 Catholicism and Adventism. All Rights Reserved.
Magazine Basic theme designed by Themes by bavotasan.com.
Powered by WordPress.
%d bloggers like this:
    »
    «