{"id":499,"date":"1999-12-10T20:13:22","date_gmt":"1999-12-10T18:13:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/?p=499"},"modified":"2019-05-25T08:21:59","modified_gmt":"2019-05-25T06:21:59","slug":"albigensians-waldensians-and-ellen-white","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/?p=499","title":{"rendered":"Albigensians, Waldensians, and Ellen White"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"fcbkbttn_buttons_block\" id=\"fcbkbttn_left\"><div class=\"fcbkbttn_button\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/DiscussingAdventismBook\" target=\"_blank\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/wp-content\/plugins\/facebook-button-plugin\/images\/standard-facebook-ico.png\" alt=\"Fb-Button\" \/>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div><div class=\"fcbkbttn_like \"><fb:like href=\"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/?p=499\" action=\"like\" colorscheme=\"light\" layout=\"standard\"  width=\"400px\" size=\"small\"><\/fb:like><\/div><div class=\"fb-share-button  \" data-href=\"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/?p=499\" data-type=\"button_count\" data-size=\"small\"><\/div><\/div><h1>Ellen White calls &#8220;Christian&#8221; what the Bible calls &#8220;AntiChrist&#8221;<\/h1>\n<div id=\"attachment_1545\" style=\"width: 168px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-1545\" class=\"size-full wp-image-1545\" alt=\"Ellen White\" src=\"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/Ellen-White.jpg\" width=\"168\" height=\"233\" srcset=\"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/Ellen-White.jpg 168w, http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/03\/Ellen-White-108x150.jpg 108w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 168px) 100vw, 168px\" \/><p id=\"caption-attachment-1545\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Ellen White<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Most Christians realise that the original Church founded by Jesus developed into the Catholic Church of the first, second, and third centuries AD.\u00a0 Some, however, read in their Bibles that Jesus promised in <span style=\"color: #990000;\">Matt 16:18<\/span> that the gates of hell would never prevail against the Church, that Jesus promised in <span style=\"color: #990000;\">John 14:25-26<\/span> that he would send the Holy Spirit to lead the Church to the truth and teach them all things, and that Jesus promised in <span style=\"color: #990000;\">Matt 28:20<\/span> that he would remain with us forever.\u00a0 They realised that either Jesus told the truth and his Church was always preserved with knowledge of the truth under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, or that Jesus was a liar.<\/p>\n<p>If Jesus preserved his Church at all times, and did in fact remain with it at all times as he promised, then the inescapable conclusion is that the Catholic Church of the first, second, third, and later centuries is the Church to which he made these promises.\u00a0 Such a conclusion is unacceptable to the carnal mind, and so several Christians who choose not to accept the biblical authority of the Church have tried to find a way around this.\u00a0 They usually turn to the Albigensians, Waldenses, and other heretical sects to try to find a &#8220;true church&#8221; outside of Catholicism, but always in existence.\u00a0 If they can&#8217;t find such a church, they must either accept Catholicism, or consider Jesus to be a liar.<\/p>\n<p>Ellen White was one of these people who grasped desperately at the non-Catholic sects of the Dark Ages to try to find a &#8220;true church.&#8221;\u00a0 Without knowing the slightest thing about them, she discovered a sect called the Albigensians, saw that they were not Catholic, that they were, like her, rabid anti-Catholics, and claimed that this was in fact the true Church founded by Jesus.\u00a0 This is what she wrote in her &#8220;inspired&#8221; writings:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #006600;\">The gospel had been planted in Bohemia as early as the ninth century. The Bible was translated, and public worship was conducted, in the language of the people. &#8230; Heaven had provided other agencies for the preservation of the church. Many of the <\/span><span style=\"color: #990000;\">Waldenses<\/span><span style=\"color: #006600;\"> and <\/span><span style=\"color: #990000;\">Albigenses<\/span><span style=\"color: #006600;\">, driven by persecution from their homes in France and Italy, came to Bohemia. Though they dared not teach openly, they labored zealously in secret. Thus the true faith was preserved from century to century.<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"color: #006600;\">\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 &#8212; Ellen White, Great Controversy, Chapter 6, paragraph 1, p97.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #006600;\">Century after century the blood of the saints had been shed. While the <\/span><span style=\"color: #990000;\">Waldenses<\/span><span style=\"color: #006600;\"> laid down their lives upon the mountains of Piedmont &#8220;for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ,&#8221; similar witness to the truth had been borne by their brethren, the <\/span><span style=\"color: #990000;\">Albigenses<\/span><span style=\"color: #006600;\"> of France.<\/span><br \/>\n<span style=\"color: #006600;\">\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 &#8212; Ellen White, Great Controversy, Ch 15, p271.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>But who are these people the Adventist church claims to be the true Christians ?\u00a0 Surely they must be similar in doctrine to modern Adventists, if Jesus&#8217; promises were true, and the Church was preserved from the forces of darkness ?<\/p>\n<p>Briefly, the Albigensians were a Gnostic sect.\u00a0 Gnosticism is described in the Bible &#8211; <span style=\"color: #990000;\">1 John 2:18,22<\/span> and <span style=\"color: #990000;\">2 John 1:7<\/span> &#8211; they are called &#8220;antichrist.&#8221;\u00a0 An analysis of their beliefs will show that they cannot be the true Christianity of Jesus and the Apostles.\u00a0 Briefly, these people denied that Jesus was God.\u00a0 They believed in 2 Gods, one good, and one evil.\u00a0 The evil God was the God of the Old Testament, the creator of all physical matter (including the human body) and what it does, and the author of evil.\u00a0 The good God was the creator of the spiritual world and was the God of the New Testament.\u00a0 He sent Jesus, a created being, to earth to liberate the divine souls trapped in the physical bodies by the evil God.\u00a0 They did not believe that Jesus really came in the flesh (cf <span style=\"color: #990000;\">1 John 2:18,22<\/span> and<span style=\"color: #990000;\"> 2 John 1:7<\/span>) but rather that this was an illusion.\u00a0 His celestial essence penetrated Mary&#8217;s ear, and this is how it got into her to later appear to be born.\u00a0 His suffering was not real, but also merely an illusion.\u00a0 Jesus never actually saved us, he merely showed us the way by which me might obtain salvation.\u00a0 They believed in reincarnation, and eventually salvation after many rebirths.\u00a0 They believed that marriage was to be avoided, and practiced instead extramarital sex.\u00a0 They also practiced ritual suicide.<\/p>\n<p>Are these the people Ellen White and the Adventist church want to associate themselves with ?\u00a0 Many Adventists appear to believe Ellen White when she says these things about Albigensianism.\u00a0 If the Bible calls Gnostic sects &#8220;antichrist,&#8221; what does that say about Ellen White and her theology ?<\/p>\n<p>For more information and evidence, please see the following post by Dave Armstrong:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a title=\"Were the Albigensians primitive &quot;Protestants&quot;?\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/05\/were-the-albigensians-primitive-or-proto-protestants.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Were the Albigensians primitive &#8220;Protestants&#8221;?<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>What about the Waldenses ?\u00a0 Were they primitive Adventists ?\u00a0 There were two groups of Waldenses &#8211; the Perfect ones and the Friends or Believers.\u00a0 The Believers stayed within the Catholic Church, receiving the Catholic sacraments, including the Eucharist at the Mass, with the exception of Penance, which they received from their own ministers.\u00a0 The Perfects were divided into 3 classes &#8211; bishops, priests, and deacons.\u00a0 The bishops administered the sacraments of confession and the Eucharist, while the priests also helped in hearing confessions of the laity.\u00a0 The Waldenses were very much believers in sacraments, just like Catholics.\u00a0 In fact a lot of their beliefs were very much Catholic, too Catholic in fact for them to pass as an ancient form of Adventism or Protestantism.\u00a0 Is this the sort of religion, with a Mass and priests hearing confession, and most laity receiving Catholic sacraments, the sort of religion that Adventists feel are their spiritual brethren ?<\/p>\n<p>For more information, look in your encyclopaedia [<a title=\"Albigensians\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Albigensians\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Wikipedia: Albigensians<\/a>] [<a title=\"Waldensians\" href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Waldensians\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Wikipedia: Waldenses<\/a>], and at the following posts by Dave Armstrong:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a title=\"Were the Waldenses primitive &quot;Protestants&quot;?\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/05\/were-the-waldenses-a-species-of-primitive-protestants.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Were the Waldenses primitive &#8220;Protestants&#8221;?<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a title=\"Were the Albigensians primitive &quot;Protestants&quot;?\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/05\/were-the-albigensians-primitive-or-proto-protestants.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\">Were the Albigensians primitive &#8220;Protestants&#8221;?<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>My final question is &#8211; are these groups of people the original Christian Church, spiritual brethren of the modern Adventist church ?\u00a0 That&#8217;s what Ellen White is telling you.\u00a0 But it is not what history reveals to be the case.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>If Jesus preserved his Church at all times, and did in fact remain with it at all times as he promised, then the inescapable conclusion is that the Catholic Church of the first, second, third, and later centuries is the Church to which he made these promises.  Such a conclusion is unacceptable to the carnal mind, and so several Christians who choose not to accept the biblical authority of the Church have tried to find a way around this.  They usually turn to the Albigensians, Waldenses, and other heretical sects to try to find a &#8220;true church&#8221; outside of Catholicism, but always in existence.  If they can&#8217;t find such a church, they must either accept Catholicism, or consider Jesus to be a liar.<\/p><p><a class=\"more-link btn\" href=\"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/?p=499\">Continue reading<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":false,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[8,12,9],"tags":[116,117,57,61,118,11,119,120,745,121,115],"class_list":["post-499","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-adventism","category-catholic","category-sabbath","tag-albigensians","tag-cathars","tag-catholic-church","tag-church-fathers","tag-early-christians","tag-ellen-white","tag-history","tag-original-christianity","tag-sabbath","tag-true-church","tag-waldensians","item-wrap"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p3fpVQ-83","jetpack_likes_enabled":false,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/499","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=499"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/499\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=499"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=499"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/blog.theotokos.co.za\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=499"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}